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| logo by Silver Doctor |
Featured Topic History of Fiberglass at Winston | |
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Duff |
Are Berkley Parametrics really parabolic? |
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I've been playing around with a couple of parabolic glass rods lately and really love the feel of them. It has gotten me thinking about the Berkley
Parametric rods and I was wondering if they are truly parabolic. If they are, does anybody know how they achieve the parabolic action?
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CreationBear |
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The 6'3" Para/metric I cast a couple of weeks ago was intensely parabolic--I think the consensus was that it
was more a "distance" rod that didn't start working until you have 30 feet or more out of the tiptop. (Out of curiosity, what are your current
parabolic rods?)
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corlay |
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general consensus is,
the shortest (6'3") are the most "parabolic", and the longest (9'3") are the least. I own the 7'0" and 8'0" and the "parabolic" feel of the soft, deeply flexing butt, after a decent amount of line is aerialized, is much more noticeable on the 7'0". The 8'0" feels more "progressive" than "parabolic" to me. But, parabolic or not, I love these two rods!
"From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time
learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most."
- Ray Bergman
Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
Last Edited By: corlay
11/25/09 18:30:57.
Edited 1 times.
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taniwha2 |
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The 9,3 #9 is a progressive action
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peacefisher.clarksclassicfl... |
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Parabolic action in any fly rod material is the product of a heavy tip/light butt.
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bulldog1935 |
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yes, the 6'3" rod is a roll-casting line-blasting rocketship
the rods are never obsolete - the marketing is.
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CrustyBugger |
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I don't feel the Berkley Para/Metrics are parabolic, Duff, and I don't think they were meant to be. Though I might be wrong about this, I think
Para/Metric and parabolic are similar in name more than they are in design. I think Berkeley was trying to design what they called a "circular"
action which is somewhere between parabolic and progressive type rods. I think they were trying to achieve something akin to what Garrison did for cane rods
but in the hollow conical glass medium. Garrison was trying to design equal stresses along the rod while Berkley was trying to achieve the same amount of bend
along the entire rod which is a circle. And if you look at it that way, the entire range of Berkley rods cast similarly. The longer they get, the longer the
chord of the circle that they form becomes. All of them are very light rods for their day. For me, the sweet spot for the Berkley Para/Metrics is in the 8ft
size.
By the way, it's pretty easy to achieve a parabolic action in a rod. If you take a 8wt rod tip and put it on a 6wt rod butt of the same design family and cast it with an 8 wt line, you'll get a parabolic action. Scott did this with their line of Bass rods. They were basically 7wt tips on 6wt butts or 8wt tips on 7wt butts. CrustyBugger
Last Edited By: CrustyBugger
12/01/09 22:07:55.
Edited 2 times.
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bassackwards |
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So, how do you tell the difference between a parabolic, semi-parabolic, and a slow progressive taper if they all flex to the same point in the rod butt?
Ron took this picture that really shows the flex pattern for my 8' Parametric. It looks to me like the top 1/3 flexes progressively. There's a relatively flat section in middle, and there's a bit of a hinge point about 2/3 down. I would call it fairly delicate rather than a powerful distance caster. I'm not aware of any parabolic "kick" at the end of the cast. Perhaps it is semi-parabolic?
Last Edited By: bassackwards
12/02/09 12:00:22.
Edited 2 times.
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pearow |
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a nice picture-p-
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cross creek one |
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I'm no math whiz, but the actual parabola's I've seen were direct opposites of the parabolic rods I've seen--parabolas curve more toward the
middle and parabolic rods flex more in the butt, with a stiffer mid-section, and a bit of flex in the tip. Semi-parabolic usually means there is a bit more
flex in the tip at short distances, then the butt flexes at longer distances, supposedly to get around the parabolic taper's poor performance at short
distances (also easier on fine tippets when fish take). These are tapers that are easy to make in bamboo, but harder to do in glass and graphite (due to the
mechanical limitations of wrapping cloth on a mandrel), so parabolic generally means heavier tip/softer butt in those materials. To further confuse matters,
the terms parabolic and semi-parabolic have been over-used in marketing to the extent that you can't rely on any maker's description, unless you've
cast the rod yourself or have the word of someone you trust that it is, in fact, parabolic. Charles Ritz designed rods that had stiffer tips and softer butts
for his "Long lift/Long flex" rods (like the Bi-Power and the PPP), and Pezon et Michel called them "Parabolic" when they marketed them for
the public, so the name became associated with thicker tips and thinner butts from then on. Scott made bass bugging rods that used, eg, an 8wt tip on a 7wt
butt. They never called them parabolic, but they sure could throw big bugs in a straight line (the tip remaining in a more level plane through the casting
stroke).
-CC |
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Duff |
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Yes, the "parabola" thing seems to always confuse the issue. My parabolic (possibly semi-parabolic) fiberglass rods have a distinct action that
seems to be able to cast short but also have an uncanny ability to cast long at the same time if my timing is right. When casting long they seem to have a
second thrust that seems to come from nowhere. In both rods the action seems to have been accomplished by using perhaps as many as three blanks. Both rods
have diameters near the cork smaller than at the first ferrule in a three-piece. I asked the question because I was curious about how a parabolic action was
accomplished in a production glass rod. I can understand how it is done in bamboo, but in glass it would seem very difficult with one continuous blank.
It's funny, a buddy of mine gave me those two Scott bass rods back in the 80's because he hated them. I tried using them for smallmouth and thought they were awful as well. I just couldn't pick a bug off of the water with that overly soft butt. Finally I gave them back and he donated both of them to a TU auction. I have only fished one of my two parabolic glass rods but it can lift a fly better than most rods I have owned and felt nothing like those Scotts. Of course in hindsight, maybe those two rods were better than we were or if not, maybe they were early ones before Scott got the action nailed down. |
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cross creek one |
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At one time, Scott offered those rods with two tips (like the Orvis "Pacechanger" bamboo, but I don't recall what Scott called them, if
anything). One tip would be a match to the butt (a six wt, maybe) and the other would be heavier, but with the same ferrule (7 wt), the idea being one rod for
trout and bass. They brought them back a couple of years ago, but didn't keep them in the line up. I suppose tastes in rods have changed, or people who
cast bass bugs regularly have found another answer (glass, maybe, or smaller bugs). I think you can still special order them through Harry Murray's fly
shop (or he still has NOS rods he hasn't unloaded). Typically, parabolic rods in glass and graphite have been made of blanks from different
mandrels, but it can be done on one mandrel with custom cut cloth. I'm sure Mark Steffen has done this, for Dennis Franke (Glastech) and for his own rods.
Mike McFarland offers some parabolic glass that may be made on one mandrel, as well.
-CC |
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WetFlyAction |
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Parabolic generally means a convex taper no? Perhaps the longer Berkleys have a similiar taper to the shorter rods, their longer lengths causing them to inevitably have a larger diameter butt section and not flex as deeply? I always assumed this is what Berkley was referring to with the term "curving taper". Wish I had a few to cast and compare. People seem to like them and they are generally out of my price range.
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cross creek one |
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Convex taper is another animal, but there are some examples of each that have similarities.
-CC |
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WetFlyAction |
my mistake | ||
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I typed convex, but what I meant was that parabolic rods generally have a concave taper.
Convex taper would be a progressive action. Steeper convex would be a dry fly action, steeper still you get "modern day fast". I realize many bamboo rods that are called parabolic have compound tapers and use the basic concave parabolic as a jumping off point only. Going to have to watch my Lee Wulff movies again, I know they were shot sometime in the 60s, and see if Curt was using bamboo or one of the para/metrics. |
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majicwrench |
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All this taper talk gives me a headache. I just know Parametrics cast nice. I'll leave the rest to educated among us
Keith |
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scud dog |
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The unsanded Orvis "Superfine" and "Rocky Mountain" have a stiffer tip and softer mid section. Would they be considered
"semi-parabolic"?
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cross creek one |
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The Superfines (most of them, anyway) are progressive, but slowed to the point that they are full-flexing--really more of a shallow straight taper than typical
progressive. Parabolic tapers are stiffer in the middle and softer in the butt, so the upper 2/3 of the rod remains relatively straighter during the cast. The
execution of that idea by various makers is where it gets complicated.
For what it's worth, Keith, I agree with your sentiment. I like experimenting with tapers, but describing them without graphics and actual rods to cast starts to get tiresome. In the end, very fine rods have been made with many different iterations of these tapers. I like casting good fly rods, period, especially when matched to the right fly line weight and taper, which is whole 'nother discussion. -CC |
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kinzua |
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In his Paralite bamboo catalog, Dennis Franke described the early Orvis Superfine series as parabolic with speeds in the medium to medium-fast range. The
7'9" #2 Ultrafine, 7'6" #3 Tippet, and 7'9" #4-5 Far-and-Fine were mentioned as best of the bunch. Also mentioned as para graphite
was the Sage SPL.
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WetFlyAction |
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You know, I've seen the term parabolic thrown around quite a bit as a description for any slower rod. However I don't think it is being used accurately. I can only speak from my own experiences, but I am a slow rod lover and I had a few very slow rods, the wet fly action Heddon in my avatar being a prime
example. However my "McDriggs" is a completely different animal. And thats a only a semi-parabolic rod. When casting there is no doubt which rod has
a parabolic taper and which is just slow, or the slower end of progressive. At least that has been my experience.
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corlay |
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my personal criteria for parabolic has always been: soft tip, stiff middle, *soft* butt.
(with an emphasis on "soft" for the butt) The first time I ever cast my Dad's 7'0" Goudy paramateric, I was like: "Whoa". If casting the rod doesn't feel like a completely different creature, then it's probably not really parabolic. I've never cast any of the bamboo parabolics, the PH Young "numbered" tapers being the most prominent; but I definitely plan to, someday. I think that for a short rod lover, like me, a "parabolic" taper allows one to get more distance (when I need it) per total length of rod, as opposed to a more traditional "progressive" taper in the same length and line rating. And they are also just plain fun to cast, but definitely a different animal, to be sure.
"From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time
learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most."
- Ray Bergman
Trout, New York: Knopf 1938 |
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