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Spiral Guides - performance?

Author	Comment
corlay	Spiral Guides - performance?	Lead	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 750 (04/02/09 15:12:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've got an old Heddon rod that I plan to restore. Part of the project will be new guides. This old 8383 has spiral guides, instead of snakes. I found a source for these style of guides in correct matching sizes, but am teetering on whether I should remain true to the original Heddon design, or replace with snakes. Question: Do spiral guides shoot line less well, than snakes? If not, I'll go with the spirals 'cause I just think they're cool lookin'. But if snakes perform significantly better, I might reverse that thinking. (I fear that the xtra surface area of guide-metal (double, actually...) would cause noticeable resistance?) I know lots of old Phillipsons had this style of guides. How do you folks like 'em? "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
Guadalupe Bass		#1	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 320 (04/02/09 20:42:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've never had spiral guides and snake guides on the same rod blank, so I can't give a direct comparison, but I have 3 7ft Phillipsons, 1 with spiral guides and 2 with snakes (different blanks, though). All I can tell you about the spiral guides is that I like them. They really don't seem to add any significant resistance (imho), but what they do add is 'feel' and 'lline control'. To me it feels like there are more guides to help control the line when you're bending the rod. But when you shoot it out it, it shoots. Technically, there may be a little more resistance, but I can't tell it. I think the line diamater has a lot more to do with the resistance. Plus, I love the way they 'sing' when you shoot line. Best of luck with your build!
jgestar		#2	[-]
Posts: 3501 (04/02/09 21:36:59) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I haven't noticed a significant performance difference between the spiral guides and snake guides. Both seem to give similar distance and drag. The only difference I've noticed is the 'sing' as Guadalupe Bass put it. The spiral guides make a unique noise when line is moving through them. I doesn't bother me, but it is definitely louder than conventional snakes. Before you peel the old guides off the Heddon, test cast the rod and see what you think of the sound. Tape on some replacement snakes if it is missing guides, or sand off any rust if the old guides are corroded. You just want to test it, not fish with it. If you have a textured line like a Rio Selective Trout, all the better. Give it a test run and see if the 'sing' fits your style. Tom
Guadalupe Bass		#3	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 321 (04/02/09 22:56:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tom, that's funny. I happen to have a Rio Selective Trout line on it. Maybe that's why I like it so much. I didn't realize it made a difference in the 'sing', but that sure makes sense. I love this site! I learn something new every day...
OLD YANKEE		#4	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 296 (04/03/09 10:32:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello I have been watching this one . There are advantages and dis advantages to the spiral guides. Dis Advantages are . Increased noise that is radiated from the guides to the line and in the case of mending,roll casting and retrieval of say a streamer to the line into the water and may spook fish. They are very easily knocked out of alignment because they bend so well. Also the distance between the spirals can be reduced by simply taping the guide against the rod tube when putting the rod away. When I restored Kelly's Phillipson the spiral guides were way out of alignment and the space between the spirals had to be corrected as well. They increase drag. They ice up faster than snake guides. The advantages are. They bend and flex with the blank better than a snake guide because the spiral is like a spring action. They reduce line slap against the blank when spaced properly. I just finished a Scott 6'6" glass rod that I fitted with Phillipson Spiral snakes from Rick. I wanted the advantage of the flex characteristics. The rod is very noisy . My recommendation would be to use REC Recoil snake guides or thin wire snakes when flex of the guide is a consideration. I like to use one Spiral guide to replace the first snake guide after the stripping guide, I think they reduce line slap in that area and only recommend them for that purpose as Phillipson adopted on many models. Tight Lines and Spiral Loops Andy M 'FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS' " DON'T FORGET THE BACKBONE" " REMEMBER TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FISHERY"
Craig	Source of spiral guides?	#5	[-]
Sport Posts: 24 (04/03/09 11:31:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Corlay: Out of curiousity, where did you locate the spiral guides? I have an old 9-foot, 10-weight unsanded lamiglas rod I built in 1978, on which I used spiral guides. One of the guides broke many years ago and I performed a patch job that worked OK, but looks like hell, so I'd like to replace the guide. I had just about given up hope, however, because I could not find a source for spiral guides, which I assumed (incorrectly it appears) had gone out of fashion. Oddly, about 2 weeks ago, I found the old spool of thread I used to wrap the rod 30 years ago, so I will even be able to roughly match the windings. I used to use that rod to fish for jack crevalle and ladyfish when I lived in Florida many years ago. It was a gas.
jgestar		#6	[-]
Posts: 3502 (04/03/09 11:49:36) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Craig, Rick's Rods in Denver carries NOS Phillipson spiral guides (see this page for spiral guides). I usually see rods in good shape that are ready for use. As a rod repair specialist, Andy gets to see ALL aspects of fly rods. Now that I think of it, I have bent a couple of spirals back into shape. I'm also too much of wimp to go fishing when the guides might ice up. Tom
Craig	Not what I thought	#7	[-]
Sport Posts: 25 (04/03/09 13:39:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks for the reply, but those guides are not what I used on the big Lamiglas years ago. The guides at Ricks are truly spiralled and frankly mine are not, at least in the strictest sense of the word. I have no idea how to describe the guides on my rod. The "spirals" actually form a ring of what is essentially doubled wire. The guides are quite long from foot end to foot end, even for the smallest size. And the ring formed by the spirals sits quite a distance above the rod (i.e., there's a good bit of clearance, Clarence, between the ring and the blank). I'll keep looking.
OLD YANKEE		#8	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 297 (04/03/09 13:51:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello What you are describing are FOUL PROOF guides. Tight Lines and Guided Loops Andy M 'FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS' " DON'T FORGET THE BACKBONE" " REMEMBER TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FISHERY"
corlay		#9	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 754 (04/03/09 13:55:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	OLD YANKEE wrote: FOUL PROOF guides. Hi Andy, I've noticed that these types of guides a quite common on vintage spin/fly rods. (I never knew what they were called, until now - thanks!) Wondering how they preform on a fly rod, just out of curiosity. "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
Craig	That's right	#10	[-]
Sport Posts: 26 (04/03/09 14:02:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yep, I believe that's what they were called. The guides on my rod are very, very similar to the REC line of guides called RSG, except that the leading leg of my guides extends further out than the RSG series. Sort of like what might happen if you took an RSG guide and tried to pull it apart. The guide that broke was the first guide up from the last stripping guide (the rod has two stripping guides) so one plan might be to simply replace it with another stripping guide (to make three) rather than look fruitlessly for a matching "foul-proof" wire guide. That's gonna be easier to match, I think.
Craig	Ah-ha. Pastor and Co.	#11	[-]
Sport Posts: 27 (04/03/09 14:07:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The foul proof guides in question are exactly the same guides used on the FF114 Pastor and Co. rod listed for sale at Rick's. Now, if I could only find a source . . . .
Craig	My last post on this subject!	#12	[-]
Sport Posts: 28 (04/03/09 14:27:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	What do you know? I found the replacement foul-proof guide. And, it's at Schneider's Rods, just up the road a piece. They stock these as vintage leftovers, or something. http://www.schneidersrods.com/ My, my, my.
OLD YANKEE		#13	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 298 (04/03/09 16:30:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello Wow isn't that fortunate. So glad I could help ! Tight Lines and My Oh My Loops Andy M 'FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS' " DON'T FORGET THE BACKBONE" " REMEMBER TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FISHERY"
WetFlyAction		#14	[-]
Sport Posts: 37 (04/06/09 12:55:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well, it's a little late, but American Tackle and Pacific Bay both still make foulproof or non-fouling guides. They are listed with boat rod guides. Not sure why they were used on spin/fly rods, but I have seen many of them on multiple brands of rods in that configuration.
flyfishing4goldentrout		#15	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 2174 (04/06/09 18:55:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	You need to check the guides carefully, the ones for Boat rods are much heavier than the ones for Spin/fly rods. There was a very recent series of the original Aetna Foul Proof guides up on Ebay, I know I bought most of them, Ive been looking for them for some time. As well Ricks Rods still has the original Phillipson double loop spiral guides, being made of fine wire and short feet as well. They are very good for repairs on Phillipsons and Heddon Pro's that used them originally or in making up your own retro rod. Sounds like Schneider's Rods, has the originals as well. Richard
wacokid54		#16	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 518 (04/06/09 22:00:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"I'm also too much of wimp to go fishing when the guides might ice up. " Wow, wish I could say that. Spent too much of the weekend with iced up guides. Broke off a fish due to the same problem. But, people say I am a mutant. I guess they think it is weird when they see me running my snowblower in shorts and Sorel Pac boots. I really like the look of the Phillipson spiral guides. Very unique. Great thread! wacokid54

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Spiral Guides - performance?

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