Reducing butt diameter

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (fred1369) — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:12:06 PST

There's a bunch of ways it can be done... like the above posts, etc. Cutting the butt and adding a glass or graphite spigot is the only way I do this. If you ream the wood insert too much, it will crack and fail. Same with a cork insert. Unless you want to use an aluminum reel seat with a large bore diameter, adding a spigot would be my suggestion. Here's a blank with a ..560" butt and with a spigot added, it's .460
"

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (whrlpool) — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:27:01 PST

Oh no, no more suggestions. Clearly, you got it goin' on and all thought out; it's to your liking and personal tradition, so that is great. Thank you for considering my point, but it is your rod, and I hope the rebuild gives you many more years of satisfaction.

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (Craig) — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:00:27 PST

Whrlpool,

Believe me, I understand. This rod has a personal attachment that goes far beyond the historical significance of the rod itself. I could go on and on about the emotional issues associated with this fishing rod, but that's meaningful only to me. The lead-up to this re-build has been long and slow, with five great fiberglass rods serving as "practice games" over the last year. I am now ready to undertake this final project, so I do not take this lightly. I am also willing to listen. I did not intend to copy the original factory Stalker look. Don't know why not, other than I wanted to do it my way. I have on hand the best set of guides I could purchase, including a beautiful agate stripping guide and the wraps will be dark red finished with spar varnish. I intended to use a minimalist Struble D2 nickel-silver, cap and ring seat, with a dark brown insert. Frankly, that reel seat and wrap colors looks very nice as mock-ups on the dark brown...

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (eastprong) — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:08:07 PST

Ditto on the drywall tape that CrossCreek mentioned. I also like Gorilla Glue for the adhesive for the insert as it expands while curing, displacing any gaps.

--Rich

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (Mojorizing) — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:21:36 PST

jgestar wrote:
Craig,

If you have a drill and a way to hold it FIRMLY, you can do the wood turning. Clamp the drill in a vise or to your workbench. Put the dowel in the drill chuck. Now use a file (with a handle) or small pieces of sandpaper to work the dowel to shape. Buy a couple of 3 foot dowels so you have plenty of material for a practice run or two.

Bribing a buddy with a lathe is even more efficient.

Tom

I do it like Tom described.

Make sure you get a hardwood dowel. Not pine. It doesn't take much to sand it to the correct fit either.

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (gypsy) — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:10:33 PST

What's the butt o.d. of the stalker?

graphite blanks generally have less of a taper than glass so they're better suited for reducing the butt o.d. imo. of course with wood inserts you have final say on the o.d. of the insert.

as whrlpool mentioned a cork insert is a good option without the hassle of cutting the blank.

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (whrlpool) — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:28:21 PST

Craig, I beg you. It's your rod, you can do what you want, and I don't believe you have any responsibility to fly-fishing posterity either. So completely ignore my plea if you like. But I just read this again, and that is a fine rod. Look over the Winston catalog in rod papers and outfit it with a seat of the types they offered. A retrofit of a type not intended for 'glass blanks just seems a shame. The more so if it involves cutting and losing some into-the-grip feel. There are plenty of high grade seats that don't require that surgery. Simple, elegant, and very fitting of the type, with no cutting required, would be a skeleton with cork insert.

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (jgestar) — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:46:32 PST

Craig,

If you have a drill and a way to hold it FIRMLY, you can do the wood turning. Clamp the drill in a vise or to your workbench. Put the dowel in the drill chuck. Now use a file (with a handle) or small pieces of sandpaper to work the dowel to shape. Buy a couple of 3 foot dowels so you have plenty of material for a practice run or two.

Bribing a buddy with a lathe is even more efficient.

Tom

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (Craig) — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:29:02 PST

Thanks for the help everyone, and I appreciate the rises to my subject line. Ugly weather right now and this is the only fishing I'm doing. And thanks, Archfly for the link. I missed that one, which was helpful. It explains everthing nicely. I wish I had the wherewithall to do the wood-turning that's required to do this absolutely correctly. Otherwise, an insert from an old blank and some drywall tape seem to be in my future.

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (Stonefly) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:15:04 PST

I would use a fiberglass or graphite insert.Make sure you clean the inside of the butt with a small file or sandpaper. Go in about 3 or 4 inches to clean it.This will get rid of the release agent on the inside of the blank so you will get a good epoxy bond.You shouldn't have any trouble with redoing your reelseat.

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (Flickfly) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:13:15 PST

Bless your heart , I thought I'd have to do that pun !

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (Mojorizing) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:11:05 PST

Why do you want to know. Does it still look that big in waders?

Sorry Betty. I couldn't help it.

Like I mentioned in other posts before, I've use glass, graphite and wood. I figure if wood is good enough for Tom Morgan, it's good enough for me. Length? For an average reel seat at around 4", I use at least an 8" insert. I epoxy it in with rod epoxy. Twist it while it's being inserted. And don't shove it in so it's jammed tight. I leave just a little space for the epoxy to fill in everything.

If you need to build up an arbor, I've done this and it hasn't failed me yet. Slather on the epoxy on the insert, then I wind string on the insert to the correct diameter. Put some more epoxy on top of the string and slide the seat on.

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (Auntie Em) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:20:59 PST

NO! No, no, no! I will be good. But that title just begs for me to say something!!!!

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (cross creek one) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:00:17 PST

I prefer drywall tape for arbors. It cuts and wraps easily, forms a hard, stable base, and is very porous to allow epoxy glue to permeate completely. I personally wouldn't use duct tape because it's pretty much impermeable and might be a little soft and squishy in use. You want the connections between dowel and rod, and dowel and reel seat to be as stiff as possible. That said, there have probably been millions of rods built with masking tape arbors, and they mostly held up just fine.
-CC

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (archfly) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:24:55 PST

Hi Craig,

Having a real case of computer illiteracy here. Check out the thread below, it should answer most of your questions:

http://fiberglassflyrodders.yuku.com/topic/8391

This is a reply to my question on the topic of using a dowel plug by davelrods on 3/11/09. I hope it helps.

John

Re: Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (nativebrownie) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:32:01 PST

Everyone will have preferences with this, but one way:
1) pieces from an old glass rod - larger taper inserted in the blank,
2) perhaps 1-1.25 inches,
3) I like duct tape,
4)wrap the tape on evenly - roll the blank and eyeball if straight - then mark it in place before final glue,
5) dunno...

Reducing butt diameter

feeds@kickapps.com (Craig) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:33:43 PST

Regarding small diameter reel seat inserts, I've dealt with the "big butt" dilemma in a couple of different ways (reaming and buying custom made inserts), but in my next project - - rebuilding a Stalker - - I want to use a relatively small diameter Struble reel seat that is not amenable to reaming to the relatively large inside diameter required for this rod. As such, I am going to - - gulp - - cut off a few inches of the butt and insert a smaller diameter "spigot" to accommodate the seat. This is a "no return" operation and there's no small amount of anxiety. I've read the other posts at this site regarding this operation, but I still have a few questions.
1. Best material? Using a wood dowel sounds easiest but what are the durability issues with wood? Is there a particular type of dowel that is preferred?
2. How far into the rod should the spigot be inserted? Does the spigot material (wood vs fiberglass) have any bearing on...